with mr venugopal

postcard attempt. conversation with mr gerson

this is an attempt at representing the conversation i had yesterday. if all the postcards have these images and a link to the database online where all the stories will be saved it might be interesting.

conversation with mr gerson carniero

Mr G: so how can I help you?

Me:no with regard to our project, we have been talking to many people all over the city, We are trying to 

collect conversations about or over food.

Mr G: im not much of a foodie myself, but lets talk and see if I can help.

Me: sure,so lets start with a short introduction maybe? My name is Siddharth and im from delhi. Im studying art.

Mr G: my name is Gerson. And Im a l,zocalite. I served as captain in the merchant navy for many years, and have now retired.we are actually termed anglo Indians, but we have Portuguese ancestry.

Me: yes, are you fine with that? Being of Portuguese ancestry and being called anglo Indian?

Mr G: yes I have no issues whatsoever, that’s a government thing, they have so many communities here so for the govts sake they have clubbed all of us as anglo Indians. But for all purposes im a kochiitte.

Me: I find it amazing that so many communities can live here in one place.we are trying to arrive at multiple perspectives of looking at kochi, eg. Some  people say that the kashmiris are a nuisance, whereas the kashmiris have a completely different point of view.

Mr G: oh yes, only recently the kashmiris have come and have set up shops and businesses here. The locals actually cant compete, that’s why the jealousy. The kashmiris come and spend a lot of money on buying land and such things. They don’t interfere with anyone.

Me: as out project has to do with food,what is your favourite dish?

Mr G: im not really fussy at all, and I normally have a traditional zerala meal, sometimes we make Portuguese cuisine as well. Like vindaloo etc. but personally , I love European food, I love steaks.

Me: what is vindaloo?

Mr G: it’s a pork based curry with marinations and such things, it tends to be sour but its very nice.

Me: has the food changed over the years?

Mr G: im sure it has but ive been here all my life, so I haven’t really noticed. What interesting is that certain food that are considered traditionally keralite, are actually ideas that the Portuguese have brought to india. You must have had puttu?

Me: yes.i liked it a lot.

Mr G: yes, the Portuguese actually showed people how you can cook and make rice cakes inside a bamboo! Even vivankjim I think that’s how they spell it, it’s a sweet thing. Its also Portuguese.

Me: wow I didn’t know that.

Mr G:haha, yes it is interesting.

Me: how do you find kochi to live in. in the merchant navy you must have seen so much of the world.

Mr G: well if you have money, kochi is beautiful. Its expensive, but if you have money you can life a very good life, its laidback and quiet. It’s a retired man’s life.you can get servants easily, you live peacefully.

Me: I haven’t seen any teenagers around.ive seen young kids in school , but where are the teenagers?

Mr G: see its an old mans town, as soon as kids finish school they spread out to all corners of india and abroad, they go to the gulf,Australia, Canada, uk, Bangalore, Bombay as well.they get better education and better opportunities there.

Me: what about your father, what did he do?

Mr G: he was a merchant, and my brothers and me have all been captains in the merchant navy.My son is now I pilot though, the merchant navy had its time, when I joined it was the best job one could go for, even better than a doctor or and engineer.it has its perks, you get to see many different places all over the world, and you earn a lot of money. But once you are married and have children, you miss out and your family misses out on a lot.

Me: was your wife ok with you being out all the time?

Mr G: actually that’s an interesting story. Theres a famous ship called Chidambaram, which in those days, went from madras to Malaysia. I was  second officer on the ship and she was a passenger. We met on board, I think somewhere around Singapore, and after our time on the ship, we got married 5 years later. Her name is Vinnie.

Me: what does she do now?

Mr G: she runs a beauty parlour in fort kochi itself, but currently shes gone off to Canada actually my daughter in law is expecting a baby.

Me: congratulations!

Mr G: thankyou!

Me:I noticed your house has a name!

Mr G: haha yes. My reasoning is that it’s the gift the sea has given me, all my earnings at sea have allowed me to build this house here. Hence, seagift.

Me: how nice. In the olden times, when you used to go out on your voyages, did you bring any things back with you?

Mr G: oh yes there was this wonderful music system I got from japan, and at that time those weren’t heard of in kochi, and everyone was excited. I just recently gave it away. It lasted me about 25 years.Apart from that I had this hobby of collecting stamps wherever I went, and I had quite a good collection.

Me: oh can I see!

Mr G: all those times have passed, now I have given it away to my children and I don’t have it anymore.

Me: how is it to be out at sea for such long stretches of time? You must be very attached to the sea.

Mr G: ive had a lot of experiences at sea. I loved it a lot but it poses a lot of challenges. After all a crew of 35 odd officers are responsible for safely taking the ship from one continent to another at times. I remember pirates were also a nuisance. They weren’t that big of a problem as they are now. But they would throw hooks, when the ship was slow, and rob things in the cabins etc.i got robbed once long back of some 10000 dollars,it was somewhere off Singapore.

Me: ok thanks a lot for your time, If youre free later, we can meet again.

Mr G: yes sure, just give me a call.

Me: see you.

conversation with mr thomas tharian

Me: Hello, thanks so much for coming to meet us.

Mr t: no problem. so yes, ask me whatever you like, ill tell you.

Me: ok so maybe we can start with a short introduction. What do you do sir?

Mr t:I own a homestay here in fort kochi. After tourism boomed here,we moved to enrakulam and started a homestay here. Its amazing. 5-6 years back there were only 5-6 hotel in fort kochi. Now as you can see, there are big hotels like the harbor hotel, and there are hundreds of homestays.this has been a recent development.We were a family with 7-8 children, so we divided our fort kochi property amongst the children and we moved to ernakulam.

Me:the old harbor hotel used to be a jewish house right?

Mr t: no actually,that one used to be a house of one of the tea company bosses. It was called old harbour’s house. There’s a hotel called koder house now, in earlier times , S.Koder, who was the head of the jews in kochi used to stay there.I remember him being around when I was a small child.Its quite a beautiful building and has now be made into a very high class hotel. You should go and check it out for yourself.even though the buildings have been renovated, they have still kept the old style intact.

Me:What all has changed in kochi since you’ve been around?

Mr T: you’ve been to mattancherry?

Me: yes, we just went there yesterday.

Mr T: mattancherry, not too long ago, used to a filthy area.Now with tourism booming, kashmiris have come there and have started small handicrafts stores there.stragely, this area that once used to filthy has become a treasure island or businessmen.The container terminal that we can see from here has also been a recent development.the prime minister inaugurated it just a year back.now it is competing with the Colombo port, and I think if the govt relaxes the taxes, rules and such things, it will be the premier port in the area. Its going to be the best business. The place is actually called valadpadam, which funnily means paddy field, look what has developed there now.

The Gosree bridges were also a major development in the area. These are three bridges that connect fort kochi, willingdon island and ernakulam. Huge flats are coming up now there because of these bridges.

Me: what did your father do?

Mr T:My father owned a tea company called AVTT( a v Thomas tea company). He came here for that reason.

Me: what are your views on theboom that kochi is going through?

Mr T: I think its great, kochi has developed in multiples.All are literate here. Its very good for business too and its going to get better.

Me:Where did you study?

Mr T: I studied in st john’s de britto school.We were taught by anglo-indian teachers.There was a girls branch too, It was called st marys girls school.The education was very good. We learn good English.theres lots of goof schools like delta study school and chinmaya vidyalaya.Im very proud of kochin.all the communities that live here love kochi,auto walahs love kochi, they charge the tourists highly! Haha. Even the fishermen cater to the tourists. The heritage is well maintained.

Me: are the tourists mainly from other countries?

Mr T:well mostly, but now even state tourism is coming up in a big way.Lots of I.T companies are coming in for trips. The govt too is encouraging them by giving incentives and funds. Actually,the I.T sector is the cheapest manpower youll find in kerala.all of these people ended up going to the gulf to work because bigger companies were paying more there.

Me: our project is probably going to revolve around food.

Mr t: oh, you get lots of kerala speciality food here. All the tourists want to try out our food.Puttu, which is a steamed cake, is quite a hit, and you get it for really cheap on the roadside and you get really expensive ones in the hotels! In my father’s time, our breakfast used to cost 25 ps, We were fond of appam and curry, puttu and such things.

Me: who generally cooks food in the household?

Mr T: women are in the kitchen all the time, while the men go out and work. But now, men have also started going for hotel management and cooking courses and even they are respectable courses because of the tourism sector. Earlier they weren’t considered to be good courses. Parents would want their children to become doctors, or engineers.earlier parents would be shy to tell others if their son was a chef.

Me:its late, you came from ernakulam right now?

Mr T: oh yes, it was a friend’s wedding, im a bass singer, we had a singing session with a choir.you guys should come to the church on Sunday, I sing in the malayali mass over there.

Me: sure!                                            

Mr t: anyway, I have to go home and eat dinner now, let me know how your project goes and call me if you need any help.

Me: sure sir! Thanks a lot!

conversation with tg suresh.

Our project is moving in a direction where we collect conversations with different people from kochi, over food. yesterday, i spoke with a local artist called suresh while we had black tea and shared a bidi.

We plan to represent these conversations in the form of postcards, so i decided to start some iterations.
below is a summary of the conversation and the images are what i drew later.

*******

Me: wow! nice studio!
Mr S: its a small one, but the energy is great!

Me: desmond, sent me here.
Mr S: oh yeah, hes a good friend of mine.

Me: can i talk to you for sometime?
Mr: sure, lets talk over tea, maybe we can eat something too.

(walk to small tea shop closeby, the area is mattancherry, he orders tea. black for himself, milk chai for me, he lights a bidi and we sit down at a  small table)

Me: there were a lot of elephant paintings i saw in your studio. why are you so interested in elephants?
Mr S:haha! ive been working on this series for 7 years now. i draw only elephants. not normal black, or grey, not even white ones, but in different colours, in different postures.

Me: hmm, why so?
Mr S: haha everyone asks me that. at times i tell people, that the elephant's trunk is so unique, or its the biggest land animal. ill tell  you tt something interesting,i think elephants are socialist animals, when i kid is born, every mother takes care of the kid. we have a lot to learn from them dont we? and you might not agree,but my aim is not to represent elephants. i am representing humans. this is me dream for the world, free people, happy peaceful people, elephants without chains.

Me:are you interested in politics?
Mr S: yes, sure im very interested in politics. but i dont contest elections or anything. im saying what i need to say through the images im making.my paintings are for the people.  i dont agree with people who say communism is an old concept.

Me: kerala has a history of communism right?
Mr S: yeah that might have been there earlier. but now its become bureaucratic. its not communism. 
do you know 80 years back common people didnt have clothes to wear in kerala!?

Me: really? sounds impossible to me.
Mr S: no im telling you only the rajas had some kind of long coats, the common people had nothing much at all. if they wanted to cover themselves up, they had to pay taxes!

Me:what? why?
Mr S: thats how the maharajas rule was.

Me: do these things that youre concerned with figure in your paintings?
Mr S:yes. i paint freedom. ultimate freedom. dancing elephants. jumping elephants. i think thats how the world should be.

Me:what are your views on the biennale?
Mr S: i think those guys are doing a corporate event. the biennale is not for the people. there is no local representation. there are so many local artists. no one is displaying there. we are planning to hold a parallel event on 12/12/12 where we local artists will talk about our views.

Me:i saw a few bob marley posters around. whats that about?
Mr S: i believe in bob marley's philosophy. his music came to me 30 years ago. we used to go to fort kochi to find cassetes and we'd listen to his music. his music was music of the opressed people. it had a fighting spirit.every two years, we organise a bob marley remembering event, and i read my poems there and give talks about my philosophies.
this is an excerpt from one poem i wrote last year.
" say no barricade
say no border
say no fort
say no force
say no war
hence only peace
and
freedom
of everyone"

Me: do you think people are opressed in kerala?
Mr V: must be.

Me: what about  other communities?
Mr v: yeah there are lots of different communities here. there are a handful of places like kochi in the world. there are jews, muslims, malayalis, christians everyone. i have hundreds of friends around here. from all communities. you should come here in the evening. we have a session of music and lot of my friends gather and talk and sing.

Me: sure i would like to come for that!
Mr S: you must.see you for now.

Me: bye.

*****

a conversation with mr venugopal

with regard to our project, we have all been doing interviews with people from different communities from town. this is the transcript from one intterview i did with mr venugopal, from the nair community of kerala.

Me: where is your family from, are you originally from kochin?

Mr V:Our family actually comes from palgad, which is about 150 kms away from here.now for 2-3 generations we have been in ernakulam.

Me: After coming to kochi, I am amazed at how many communities live here.

Mr.V:Well yes. I would like to tell you a little about the history of kochi.The Portuguese came to Calicut in 

1502, where they didn’t get privileges as the zamorin king of calicut did not get along well with the Portuguese. Hence, they came to kochin where vasco made friends with the maharaja.they ended up ruling for around 150 years.In 1663, the dutch came, and there was a soldier named van rheede, who ended up becoming the head of the dutch community here. He was the one who wrote the hortus malabaricus, which you must have heard about.

Me: yes I have heard about it, It was a work on botany right?

Mr.V:yes, it’s a treatise on the medicinal properties of plants in the Malabar region.

Me: hmm.

Mr V: around 1777, there was british rule. Oh yes, and also I think it would be of interest to you to know about muziris. Muziris was a port in ancient roman times. It was a center for trade of spices, textile and sandalwood.Recently, roman coins were excavated from there!

Me:What about your community?

Mr V: We actually come from the nair community, which is the martial tribe of kerala.Whats unusual is that the matrinial system is followed.All the money in the family is traditionally kept with the mothers,because the men were always on the front and no one knew if they would come back or not. It was a system to contain wealth within the family.

Me:is It that way now too?

Mr V: no now things have changed, so not many people follow this tradition.

Me: What do you do professionally?

Mr V:I studied at the SRV high school, and then the Mahraja school, where I studied sociology and English.then I went to ediburough for management. I was the owner of the tire company which is now Apollo tires. It was called premier tires when I was there. Now I have retired and am a patron in the kerala fine arts ascosciation.

Me:oh yes! We saw a concert there yesterday!

MrV: ah yes! It was some Pakistani band right, I didn’t catch it. you know, just recently, I got the ACs installed in that auditorium.

Me:yes, we enjoyed the concert. Your house is very beautiful!

Mr V:yes, you know nothing in this house Is less than 75 years old.my father used to live a little bit awa from here, but that area became very commercialized, so I decided to make my house here.At the same time, i didn’t want to let go of the things in that house, so I brought all the things from there to this place. The switchboards, the fans, the tables.that chair in the corner is about a 100 years old!

Me:Wow! What about that chest on the table?

Mr V: that is my mothers jewel case. Its again about a 120 years old.I found it in the attic of our old house and I brought it here.

Me: wow its very beautiful. So, our project is about the cosmopolitan nature of kochi, any thoughts on that?

Mr V: Well in our time, I remember kochi used to be a very peaceful place, not that it isn’t now, but I remember it didn’t matter whether out friends were Christians or malayalis or anything else. My good friend Joseph passed away away a few years back. He was very close to me. although, recently I have heard news of some violence here based on communal grounds. It was never like that earlier.everyone knew everyone else.

Me: was he a friend from school? If I may ask.

Mr V: no no, we both studied at maharaja college. I have lost touch with my school friends. Its been a really long while.

Me:personally, I find myself wondering about how old kochi used to be. Where I come from, there is a trend of big companies buying land and demolishing beautiful old buildings to build malls etc. has kochi changed much?

Mr V:oh yes! Back in the day the whole area was much like an extended village, everyone knew everybody, there were very few vehicles, and there was much more greenery.

Me:any things that youd like to share for me to get an idea about old kochi?

Mr v:theres this incident that ill tell you.My father was a professor at maharaja college, which is where I also studied.one day he had this idea of introducing a botany degree course here. I remember he told us, within 2 days, he went to the govt authorities and It was done and work began.I myself wanted to introduce a course at chinmay college, which is not even a government college with excessive permissions to take etc. but I have been working for 2 years on that now and nothing has moved forward. Its pathetic.

Back in the day, education was at its peak.more than education I would say the intellectual level in kerala has really come down, although on paper the state is still at highlest literacy in the country.It has become a consumer state now, and people are just running after things they want to buy and acquire.

Me: doesn’t kerala have a history of communism?

Mr V: that is true, but now it really doesn’t matter what party is governing. They are all coalitions with so many parties that there is no change or collective vision as such.

Me: hmm, are the people interested in politics?

Mr v: yes, that’s one thing I will say, people are politically conscious. There have been times where autowalas will refuse to take you to your destination because they are reading a paper in the morning.they all discuss politics amongst themselves as well.on a local mla level.

Oh and another thing. Kerala is the state with the highest degree of liquor comsumption in the entire country. People drink in the afternoon. One of my nieces has a company here, at one point she had to declare Monday as a holiday, because so many people wouldn’t turn up after drinking so much on Sunday.

I remember another incident. There was this new head of cultural society recently, and I was chatting about my stay in edinborough, and he didn’t even know where edinborough was! Can you imagine? And he was the head of the society.

Me:yeah that’s sad. Here, id like to tell you a bit about our project. We are trying to represent the cosmopolitanism in kochi through the different kinds of food here.  What your take on food?

Mr V: I don’t cook, but I eat whatever my sister serves me. its mostly malyali food, with rice, sambar , dal, chapatti. She lives across the road.

Me: what do you eat for your other meals. And whats you daily routine like?

Mr V:in the morning I have 2 toasts or biscuits with black coffee. Then after that I read poetry. Mostly stuff myy wordsworth,Tennyson, keats. I like the classics. In the afternoon I go over to my sisters to have a kerala lunch. Which has rice, dal etc like I told you. Then if people are over I sit with them. In the evening I have black tea and 2 biscuits. Then I read again, and maybe go for a short walk too.

Me: what kind of books do you like?

Mr V: well apart from the poetry, I like to read biographies , historical books. Im not really interested in fiction.i tried reading one recently, but most times I like reading history.

Me:ok

Mr V:yes so in the night, and you might find it strange, I have some dryfruits.cashewnuts and such things.

Me: how come?

Mr v: no its just a matter of habit. And now I don’t really feel the need to eat that much. Plus since my sister lives across the road, I don’t like to hassle her. I make do with cashewnuts.

Me: I see lots of music cds too.

Mr V: yes some evenings I enjoy some music, which is mostly carnatic music like thyagaraja, ilayraja.i like western classical too.

Me: hmm, any more incidents youd like to share?

Mr V: yes, theres one more. I told you about joseph right, when we were in college in our final year,I was playing tennis with some other friends.then another friend ran up to us and told us that joseph was going to commit suicide! We tried to find him and finally found him sitting on a stone near the railway track.when we went up to him, he told us that the principal, had caught him romancing with a girl and he felt so bad that he wanted to kill himself. We tried to cheer him up, but to no avail. So we dragged him for a coffee to kochin refreshement house. That I was also the first time I ate outside home. It wasn’t considered a good thing, to eat out I mean. No respectable person ate out.I had vegetable cutlets and coffee which came upto 50 ps.

So yes, finally joseph calmed down.haha!

Me: there are so many religions in kochi, Christians, muslims, hindus, jews etc. what are your views on religion?

Mr V: I don’t have any issues with any religion, as I said, I had lots of Christian friends, muslims,everyone, it didn’t matter. The only thing ill tell you is  that “ you should have, faith, otherwise you’re like a ship without an anchor”. This is something st paul said.

Nowdays though, the sad part is that the priests have become more powerful than the gods and they have begun to exploit people.

Me:hmm, im just wondering, you never chose to get married?

Mr V: haha, no , I always liked to live by myself.

Me: there was never any consideration of marrying?

Mr V:no no haha, I always liked to live by myself, even now, I wont use the same bathroom which anoher person has used.

Me: you have a beautiful old fiat parked outside? Do you like cars?

Mr V: oh yes! I really like cars. Even though I don’t really drive anymore, every other morning I clean It and start it to keep the engine in shape.

Me:what kind of cars were there earlier?

Mr V:as I said, there weren’t very many cars at all. There were a few morrised, cowleys, and fords. We kids could identify the owner from the car number.

Me:as im a student of film, Im curious about how cinema came here.

Mr V: now I haven’t gone to the theater in really long, but I remember the first movie that came to ernakulam was achut kanya(untouchable woman), ashok kumar was the lead role.i think It was around 1938. We all went to marega theater to watch and I remember my father got me peppermints to eat.other movies I remember are jhools, khazawchz(khazanchi).the balcony ticket used to be somewhat around 1 rupee.it used to be a thrilling experience.the first colout movie came in 1948. I also remember Samson and Delilah, it was one of my favourites.that one was screened at star talkies in fort kochi, that was where the English movies used to come. Ernakulam mostly had hindi and malayali cinema.

I remember an incident when I went to star talkies, after the movie ended a 9:30 in the night, there were no bused to go back home. I walked home, my mother was very worried and there was no phone to contact here like now.

That reminds me, one time when I got a distinction at college, my uncle imported a green rally cycle for me for 50 rs as a gift, It had a brookse seat,Charles belt, millers dynamo. I still have that cycle.

Haha! After I got this cycle, me and my friend ramachandran who was elder to me would ride together on my green cycle to the college to see girls. When we went the first time, I was sitting at the back, and ramachandran was riding. A cop stopped us, and told us not to go overload the bicycle with two people on the main road. That said, the next day we went to the college again, while coming back, we managed to bump into the same cop. He made us get off and deflated the tire. He asked us to come to the station. We pushed the cycle to the station. I was scared. He asked me who I was and I told him I was the masters son, and he said “ what are you doing? Being the master’s son, you are creating mischief! Finally he asked ramachandran, and he told to the cops surprise that he was the son of the inspector of the area, and the cop stood up, told us sorry sir and let us go! Haha they were good times.

Me: thanks a lot uncle, it was great talking to you, when we have a bit more direction with our work, ill come with few questions prepared. Thanks!

city at it's limits-Daniella Gandolfo

“the soft city of illusion, myth,aspiration, nightmare, is as real, maybe more real than the hard city one can locate on maps in statistics, monographs on urban sociology,demography and architecture”

* in our project, we are trying to capture life in kochi, and this statement from the book really resonated with me.We are hoping to collect conversations over food from all over, which might start from food, but hopefully will go into personal stories. These stories will map out kochi with all its illusions, mythologies, aspirations and nightmares. *